Simple-minded, piggish men aren’t born that way?
August 4, 2009 by Amelia
Filed under Dating & Sex, Figuring Out Men, delainemoore
Submitted by Delaine
I’ve heard it said that most men are ’simple’ creatures. They love ‘T’ and ‘A’ and think about women’s orifices many times a day. They don’t like drama queens or control freaks. They want women to laugh at their jokes. And NOTHING, I mean NOTHING brings them greater joy than a great blow job first thing in the morning.
In the recent movie release, The Ugly Truth, actor Gerard Butler plays the role of an obnoxious, rude TV dating coach who tells women the ugly truth about men and relationships. And for the first part of the movie I despised him: he reminded me of the piggish, unevolved, simple-minded jerks I’ve dated in past.
But then came the twist - his big ‘reveal.’ He confessed that the reason he acted and thought this way was because he’d been hurt and betrayed so many times by women; it was easier not to care; a way of protecting himself.
Because of Butler’s admission, I’m now scratching my head. Does this mean that most men in real life that come across as piggish, simple-minded jerks are in self-defense mode? That it’s not so much a ‘gender’ or biology-based issue as it is one of personal experience?
Perhaps I’m confused about something that is really straight forward to every one else. But I was under the impression that men who act like that are just kinda born that way. Cause I don’t know how many articles I’ve read that excuse or blame men’s behavior on their hormones; I thought the root cause really was somehow biological. It was a Mars versus Venus issue.
So please, can someone please help me get in the know here? Are men who act like simple-minded, piggish pigs more a product of nurture verses nature? Cause I know I’ve been really hard on them, not that they don’t necessarily deserve it. But I don’t want to be finding my own power, by kicking men in the balls; I really just want to understand…
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I think it’s a bit of both. I do believe that the males of the species think differently than the females do. I don’t think either is inherently better than the other, just different. Almost two sides of the same coin, if you know what I mean.
I also believe that society as a whole treats the two differently. Girls for the most part grow up being taught to be nice, emotionally aware, nurturers, whereas boys are often taught to be tough, strong, providers. Even if they are raised by the same parental “teachings”, how often do we hear “boys will be boys” when they are rough housing and “girls will be girls” when they get emotional and cry over something (from society, other parents, teachers, etc.) I think this carries over into adulthood as women tend to look at themselves for reasons why a relationship went bad or are better at “justifying” bad behavior in others (he’s been hurt, had a bad childhood,etc.) Men typically tend to react with a “screw them before they screw you” policy after being hurt a few times.
I think we are improving, but it’s going to take a few more generations before society actually holds men and women to the same standards of emotional accountability. (Ward and June have a lot to answer for. I mean, really folks, my grandparents are still alive and they grew up in the “woman’s place is at home making provider man’s life peaceful and happy,” era.) Society and both sexes are still dealing with the fallout from the changing roles of men and women today, not just physically but emotionally as well.
And yeah, I know not everyone fits into this theory, but we’re talking generalities here.
CJ, I agree both sexes are still dealing with the fallout and men are the gender having the most issues. Some men I should say.
My site at About.com has been hit lately by comments from angry men who blame feminism for the high divorce rate and turning women into “bitches.”
If you tell them they are b@st@rds they accuse you of trying to “shame” them. These are very simple-minded, piggish men.
And, I’ve never met one who had not suffered some kind of past hurt. Whether it is rejection by women or pain for problems in their family of origin or changes in gender roles these men are damaged.
Here is the thing though…emotional pain is no excuse for bad behavior. If that were true I could get away with murder!
I think us women make excuses for men. If they behave badly we excuse it because they had a horrible mother or their last girlfriend cheated on them.
So, whether it is nurture or nature, who cares. The key is to find one who you can respect and will respect you back. Not one you take as is because he has been injured.
I guess my question to MYSELF though is: Have I become too quick at ‘labelling’ men before giving them a fighting chance? Since getting divorced, did I start giving this ‘kind’ of men too much air time in my conversations with girlfriends and maybe even directly to men too? Cause I know I’m guilty of making generalizations – generalizations that probably not only make men defensive and angry, but ones that blind me from seeing the many decent, good men around me.
Hmmmm. Still figuring this one out…
I’m not sure if I’m “allowed” to post here, I’m a male but I stumbled onto this page because I have been curious about this topic recently and I think it might be insightful to hear a man talk about this openly and honestly.
I think that most of the piggish, and simple-minded men in the world actin such ways due to society’s interpretation of what a man and a woman are. I won’t lie, there are many men whom I know that have disgusting views on what a womans role is. Personally, I think that the argument itself is a falsity because of the fact that just like we don’t come into the world with a set job or spouse, we don’t come into the world with a set role or superiority. We all begin as children who need to be protected and taughtand our experiences as human beings shape our perspective on the world around us, as such we act in ways that comply with those perspectives. Someone who has a childhood life shaped by laziness and watching a father have dominance over a mother will unfortunately(most likely) grow up to expect the same.
I have had some experience with divorce. My parents were divorced when I was seven (I’m seventeen now, I hope that doesn’t doom my credibility), and for a long time I noticed that my parents were very bitter toward eachother and towards those of the opposite sex, they were very quick to make gross generalisations and judgments. I won’t pretend that I came out of the situation unscathed, I have had some issues that I won’t elaborate on here, but I overcame my problems with time and effort. I would say that based on these limited impartial observations that an event as emotionally poignant as divorce would tend to affect your view of the opposite sex in negative ways, but these are only two people so I wouldn’t say that definitively. I suppose that the point of this would be to try and keep an open-mind about the whole, even if parts are repulsive – it took me a very long time to consistenly do this. In the end I would say that the divorce was better for all parties due to the fact that I’ve always agreed much more with my mother than my father and I eventually stopped seeing my father.
I would hope that what I have written has perhaps shown whomever is reading this that not all men are pigs, I can understand why some would feel that way though. It’s much easier and satisfying in the short-term to project negativity onto something than look for the positive in it. I wrote before,that I know people who have very primitive views on women, but I also know men who are intelligent, and are thoughtful enough to know that men and women are pieces of the same puzzle. Without one you can’t have the other, and neither is superior or inferior, just different. I would say that I know more males that are positive than vice-versa. So in conclusion, I guess I would just try to urge someone who is reading this that may think all men are stupid or perverts, to rethink that position because I consider myself exactly the opposite of both of those.
I’m sorry about any typos in here but it isn’t letting me edit what I’ve written properly without rewriting everything. I’m also sorry if I’m not welcome here.
I wish anyone who’s going through tough times right now good luck, you’ll come out of it stronger than before. I know I did.
Connor,you are more than welcome here. We enjoy a male perspective!
My youngest son was 7 when his father and I divorced so I think I have an idea of what you may have experienced early in life. I’m very happy to hear that you grew through the experience.
You are right when you say our experiences shape our views. I think that is why it is easy to clump all men or women into a negative category if you have gone through a divorce.
The good news is that most managed to, like you, work through the pain, heal and come to understand that not all women are bad and neither are all men.
I judge people on an idividual basis and one thing is for sure I don’t judge any man based on society’s idea of what a man should or shouldn’t be. I like to define for myself what I feel is a good man or good woman.
The sad thing is, there are people who will always judge an entire gender as bad based on the behavior of a few members of that gender.
The key is to not become one of those people. Like you said, “without one you can’t have the other and neither is superior or inferior, just different.”
Connor – First off, I must say I’m amazed that you’re only seventeen. You’ve express yourself so well and in a way many men/women much older are unable to do.
I know I have been guilty of making generalizations about men since getting being betrayed and getting divorced. Unconsciously, I’ve taken the wrongs committed towards me out on other men. I see that only now. My anger needed an outlet, and men – the whole species – became my target. Again, I was doing this unconsciously.
I really do WANT to undertsand men better. Not so that I can excuse or blame men’s behavior on a past event or society, but so that I can continue to move beyond my anger/hurt and see the many good men that really are out there. My inner-pendulum has started to shift again – I can feel it;I’m changing again. I know it required that both my head and heart reach some sort of agreement…and so I continue moving forward with my head….I’m trying to understand so that my heart can follow…
Thank you for your thoughts Connor.
No. And I can’t believe you would even THINK the guys SCRIPTED admission in a movie “The Ugly Truth” has anything to do with what is going on in REALITY.
Did you take everything you saw in SexAndTheCity literally too?
Because those were four women – for seven years – who knew NOTHING about how to keep a man’s interest or attention… and they continuously BLAMED MEN FOR IT.
Oh, they were EXPERTS at “getting” male attention.
But none of them had any idea how to KEEP it.
…. just like the ill-informed, divorced women all over this website.
These women will listen to each other’s advice about “men” – when none of them have any clue.
While this clueless girl who published this article yammers on about how much she DESPISED Gerard Butler in the movie…. doesn’t she think its interesting that she would repeatedly SLEEP with men she despised??
Why would a man CARE about intimacy, marriage, or a relationship to any woman when YOU posted the number one “advice” to other women…. “1. Don’t be afraid to fight for alimony for life.”
The only reason they wrote that bullshit idea into “The Ugly Truth” that he was hurt in the past…. was so that divorced women – like YOU – would go and see the movie.
Don’t EVER blame MEN because we have no interest in “paying alimony for life”.
T and A is the FUN / ENJOYABLE part about women,.
“paying alimony for life” is NOT.
Are you getting it now????
These women need to watch who they DARE call “piggish”.
Getting T&A and ENJOYING it is a hell of alot more enjoyable for men….. than paying alimony for life, and child support and whatever else you women expect on a date.
It is still legal in this country for a woman to allow herself to get pregnant without a man’s consent.
While you may think men (like Gerard Butler – and myself) are “piggish”, unevolved, jerks (who you girls LOVE to sleep with)……. compare the tits and ass I want from you to the LIFETIME of alimony payments you want from ME.
Guess who looks “piggish” now.
A Man, I always enjoy hearing another perspective. Especially from the opposite sex.
You seem a bit confused though and in my opinion quite angry. That isn’t an opinion, it is a tirade. A useless diatribe that does you nor anyone who reads it any good.
Evidently you feel you’ve been mistreated by a woman. If so I’m sorry and hope you are one day able to let go of the anger you feel.
Cathy,now you mention how you always enjoy hearing someone’s perspective(especially opposite yadda,yadda,ya). But, look at how you respond. You say he seems a bit confused and quite angry. You never mentioned how or why. You automatically assumed he must have been mistreated by a woman. Did he say anything about his past? No he didn’t.
He made some valid points about men such as ourselves avoiding marriage with the “alimony for life” posting on this site. I don’t blame the guy, I feel the same way about marriage these days. Instead of you trying to address the points made,you jump into that old “he must’ve been by a woman” routine.
{{ A useless diatribe that does you nor anyone who reads it any good.}}
I’m sure you said that because you feel it doesn’t do you any good. So speak for yourself. You are prime example of the type who is hard to reason with, you overlook the key points made in a debate. Then, you take what you don’t like,send it through your emotional thought processor and come out with total crap.
I’m done here,because staying is probably an argument waiting to happen. I’m sure this site is probably flooded with women who(like you)see things one way, their way. So say what you want about me. You can even call me names like “piggish”. I tell you one thing, I’d rather be a pig any day than to be an alimony paying slave to some ingrate.
Steve, thanks for your point of view. I’m not interested in debating with you whether how I feel is right or wrong.
You feel the way you want to, I will feel the way I want to and we can call it a day.
I don’t go to the website you frequent and make comments even though I find some of the things said rather offensive. Maybe in the future you will show me the same respect here on this site.
Ummmm….A Man? I’m the one who wrote this piece and called ’some’ men piggish and simple-minded. We all know there are men out there like this – even my male friends roll their eyes at them. Similarly, I roll my eyes at fake chiquititas who have a pretentious agenda too.
The reason I wrote this article was to help me understand why piggish men are the way are – not to deliberately name-call or degrade the male species.
Cathy doesn’t deserve to be treated like this and it simply must stop. The idea here is have a discussion, not to blow up and personally rip someone part.
My point is A Man (alimony issue aside since it’s obviously a sore spot for you) – it’s not fair for us, men or women, to take out our anger on someone else for the crimes committed against us by another.
I read this, and I just can’t help myself. The gloves have got to come out.
Who the heck pays alimony for life?? If your ex is trying to get you to pay alimony “for life” go to court, prove that she is able bodied and capable of work, and put a time limit on the alimony payments. Come on now, be smart. No judge is going to order alimony for life.
Believe it or not though, she IS entitled to support if she has been a stay at home mommy to your babies and no longer has the qualifications or contacts to work a 9-5 job in her field. You pay your housekeeper, cook and babysitters don’t you? Yet because she loves/loved you she’s slave labour?? Why is she expected to fend for herself all of the sudden after years of being confined in domesticity? She IS entitled to a few years of measly support so that she can upgrade her education & get on her feet again.
Why would it ever be illegal for a woman to get pregnant “when the man doesn’t want her to”? The Pill puts women at risk for blood clots, pleural affusions and embolysms– that means we are risking our lives because you say “it’s too tight” (it never is sweet cheeks). You don’t want kids? Put a condom on and she won’t get pregnant! If you don’t want to wrap it up, you want to “feel it” get a vasectomy. Problem solved. Consider it natural selection.
And for frig sakes– this T & A being the “enjoyable” part of a woman– did you ever consider that if she’s spreading her legs for you– bearing the most sensitive part of her body to you– she might actually, God forbid, LIKE YOU??? I sincerely hope that you and I never cross paths on the dating scene, because “A Man”, after 10 minutes of your company I would give up penis for Lent.
P.S. should I translate this response into oinking so you can comprehend it?
A great person once said
A few sayings come to mind after reading the above blogs
” No one can make me feel inferior without my consent” (Eleanor Rosevelt)
and
” dont judge others until you have walked a mile in their boots “
sorry, I stuffed up the formatting but I think you will get the gist of what I am saying….?
Well…I spent some time myself kicking men in the balls to protect myslef. I love men. men are great! Just as women are! There are some men who were raised to behave like jerks. Bad behaviors don’t make a bad person. Our behaviors are an indication of or beliefs. when beliefs change behavior changes. For example my own “bitch” behavior was built on the belief that I must protect myself from ending up with the wrong guy…guess what it got me….THE WRONG GUY!!! every time. I atracted what I projected. Guys who needed to protect themselves. So I changed. Over time I allowed for my true nature to evolve. What I found was that I have a greater need to give and a difficulty with receiving. So I attracted takers not givers. That was my issue not a mans. So I learned acceptance. The joy of receiving…and giving. It’s allowed me to know my boundries, somethiing I never had before.
As far as men? I believe men are far more vulnerable and insecure than they are ever comfortable with. Men are still raised on old world societal beliefs of strength, conviction and power and their actions and behaviors surrounding such meanings must be very difficult for them to navigate. Both genders are in difficult times as women are trying to assert equality in carreers and societal areanas and men are trying to figure out being “masculine” under pressures of old beliefs and new realities.
What do we really expect of each other as males and females? We have gender differences..and they’re AWSOME! We blanket men and women with our bad experiences rather than keeping it real. Men and women both exhibit bad behaviors when we are threatened, vulnerable, and fearful. Don’t blame an entire gender classification for what is likely our own poor belief. Resist these stereo typical generalizations. See the person not the gender. We need to be a little kinder to each other.